Why Liz stopped singing....

topic posted Sat, May 14, 2005 - 8:06 PM by  Unsubscribed
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A lot of people were shocked and disappointed that Liz bailed out of the Cocteau Twins appearance at the Coachella festival. I'm not, in fact I was shocked that she agreed to do it in the first place. The Cocteau Twins have always been an enormously private band, but I've done a bit of investigating and I think I know why our goddess is silent.

This is from the Cocteau Twins website, concerning the dedication to the final Cocteau Twins album Milk and Kisses:

Dedication reads: "Milk and kisses for the first man / my old man / love and a thousandfold rose for Buckley / my Rilkean Hearted friend" (From Elizabeth; 'Buckley' is a reference to Jeff Buckley.)

It was rumored that Liz fell in love with an unspecified individual on the Four Calendar Cafe tour. And then she was linked with Jeff Buckley in the press. Liz didn't respond, but Buckley told the press that they were just friends. This most likely was to protect Liz's privacy. Anyone who has seen Liz onstage knows what a fragile flower she is. But something got into her for the making of Milk and Kisses. After the subdued and whispery vocals of Cafe, Liz's singing on Milk was full-throated, expansive and extremely sensual. One of her most amazing vocal performances ever was on the sublime "Seekers Who Are Lovers" track. All the tracks on Kisses were extremely erotic, a quality that Twins music was not generally known for. Couple that with the "love and a thousandfold rose for Buckley" dedication, and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out the nature of their relationship.

A listen to Buckley's records reveals a startling affinity with Liz. It's highly likely he discovered her following her landmark cover of his father's Song to the Siren on the first This Mortal Coil album. A casual listener could spot the influence Liz had on his singing. And couple with Liz' exotic, otherworldly beauty, it must have been a match made in heaven.

The Twins were an extremely dysfunctional band. Both Robin Guthrie and Simon Raymonde have confessed to severe drug problems and Liz and Robin's breakup was by her admission, damaging to all involved. But Jeff Buckley must have seemed like an angel sent from heaven. Given the fact that both of them were extremely busy with their careers, its hard to say how much contact they had with one another on a regular basis. But if you listen to Milk and Kisses in light of Liz's relationship with Buckley, one can imagine how ecstatic their union was.

Besides the fact that Liz was not your basic "Type A" career-slut like Madonna or Gwen Stefani, and that there was a great deal of turmoil in the band, there is also the fact that Liz had damaged her vocal cords and was in therapy after Four Calendar Cafe to re-learn to sing. And to make matters worse, she is also the survivor of childhood sex abuse, a fact she very bravely discussed in interviews in the early 90's. Then as she was starting to come out of her shell and reclaim her life as a great artist and sexual being, Jeff Buckley drowned in the Mississippi River in May of 1997. Shortly afterwards, Liz Fraser walked out of recording sessions for a new Cocteau Twins album, never to return. Again, do the math.

The Gnostics believed that the World was an abortion. They believed that this realm of creation was corrupt and fallen and that human beings were spirit beings imprisoned in the world of matter. When I contemplate the suffering that someone who has brought such immaculate, phosphorescent beauty into the world, I am increasingly inclined to agree. The list of careerist cows who ransacked Liz's beautiful art and took in to the bank is endless. The Cocteau Twins never received the acclaim they deserved. And Liz has suffered so much in her life. The more recent photos I've seen of her are heartbreaking. It's like the light of the world has gone out.

Anyway, I know a lot of people were greatly disappointed by the Twins' Coachella cancellation. But in context, perhaps you can realize that your disappointment is extremely trivial in comparison.
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  • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

    Sun, May 15, 2005 - 3:10 AM
    Wow, Chris. Thank you for that amazing insight and how tragic to hear about where Liz is at these days. It just goes to show that it doesn't matter how much love is outside you (I'm thinking of the thousands of fans like us), it's the love you have for yourself on the insde that is the only thing that counts.

    I put on Milk and Kisses after reading this and it has been years since I've heard it. Really beautiful, gives me goosebumps.

    Just curious, what is meant by "The list of careerist cows who ransacked Liz's beautiful art and took it to the bank is endless." ? I am not familiar with the business end of their story.
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      Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

      Sun, May 15, 2005 - 8:39 AM
      <<<Just curious, what is meant by "The list of careerist cows who ransacked Liz's beautiful art and took it to the bank is endless." ? I am not familiar with the business end of their story.>>>

      I was referring to all the plagirarists who ripped her unique style off, everyone from Sinead O'Connor to Enya to the Cranberries to Alanis Morrisette and everyone inbetween.

      Natasha-Liz was never trained to sing, she was self-taught. Which means she never learned to avoid the dangers that singing can pose to your throat and vocal cords. It finally caught up to her and I think the Heaven or Las Vehas tour was the straw that broke the camels back. The Cocteaus had never toured extensively before that.
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        Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

        Sun, May 15, 2005 - 9:45 AM
        Apologies for the double-posting, but I found a quote from that BBC documentary. I've been poking around the web and have noticed that a lot of reviewers have commented on Liz's appearance- heartbreaking. One said she looked "deranged" and one said she looked like a "spinster".

        "I was having a hard time in the band I was in and so to meet Jeffrey was just like being given a set of paints. Do you know what I mean? It was just like I had all this color in my life again.

        "I mean he idolized me before he met me. It's kind of creepy and I, I was like that with him. This is embarrassing but it's the truth. I just couldn't help falling in love with him. He was adorable.

        "I read his diaries, he read mine, you know we'd just swap, we'd literally just hand over this very personal stuff and I've never done that with anybody else. I don't know if he has. So in some ways it was very, there was a great deal of intimacy but then there'd be times when I'd just think 'oh no, I'm just not penetrating this Jeff Buckley boy at all' I just felt like a groupie or something sometimes. It wasn't like being his partner at all.

        "He just had something you wanted, it didn't matter who you were"

        Liz Fraser-Cocteau Twins/This Mortal Coil
        (BBC Documentary - "Everybody Here Wants You')
        • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

          Sun, May 15, 2005 - 12:26 PM
          Buckley has a song on his second, posthumous cd, Sketches for My Sweetheard the Drunk, called "Morning Theft." Some of the lyrics read, "Your eyes and body brighten, silent waters deep; your precious daughter, in the other room asleep," and "I miss my beautiful friend." I always thought that was a reference to Liz and Lucy.

          Regardless of their relationship, eternal, failed, cut short, or whatever happened, how does that effect Liz's decision to bail out of Coachella? I still believe it was incredibly unprofessional and petty. If she's truly made the decision to stop singing, why agree to a large outdoor concert in the middle of the California desert where she's required to sing to thousands of fans? If she bailed out due to an ailment, I'll have a little more understanding. But just to bail out with the feeble explanation we were given is no explanation or reason at all.
          • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

            Sun, May 15, 2005 - 12:41 PM
            BTW, Sinead O'Connor and Dolores Cranberry started off as self-taught singers, too. I've seen Sinead perform live several times and seen the heart & soul she puts in her work. She's no "careerist cow," as Delores seems to have become. Case in point: Sinead's left the music business, too. Sinead is a multi-faceted woman with a complex, loving, and often irritating personality. Unlike Liz, her fragility is often hidden beneath a tough, angry exterior, something that many men take issue with. Both Sinead and Liz are true originals who approached their work and the world with their heart in their mouths. Would you have Sinead become more like Liz and deny her own fierce self? If it weren't for that fierce personality, her shaved head, and a voice like the bean sidhe raking across the Irish moors or a mother rocking her child to sleep, Sinead would not have garnered the attention she did from the music industry.
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              Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

              Sun, May 15, 2005 - 12:59 PM
              Sinead has made some interesting music, but she's the queen of the self-promoting publicity stunts. I have a hard time taking her seriously as an artist with all the nonsense she pulls to make the papers.

              My guess on Coachella is that the offer was made and Robin and Simon wanted to do it, and Liz may have agreed in order to make them happy. But this is a woman who looked like a dear caught in the headlights onstage- could she stand to sing in front of thousands of people? Do you remember her disastrous appearance on Jay Leno? She was so clearly terrified. And look at her track record since Buckley's death- you can't even fill a CD with the stuff she's done in the past 8 years, and it's all other peoples' projects that she probably did to pay the rent. Liz is an artist, and the sickening corruption of this world has not been kind to her. To accuse her of being "unprofessional" is to miss the point- she's no longer a professional singer.
              • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                Sun, May 15, 2005 - 6:26 PM
                Dare I say it? It sounds like someone's had their head turned a little too much by Liz. While I agree that she's struggled with her identity as a singer in the last 10 years more than she ever has, I still call her decision to pull out of Coachella unprofessional. A professional thinks before they act. I can say the same of Sinead when she pulled her "publicity stunt" on Saturday Night Live, ripping up the pope's picture on national tv. Just as you argue that Liz's decision to pull out of Coachella was prompted by her overwhelming emotions, I'll argue the same of Sinead's "stunt" on SNL. At age 15, Sinead left her home in Ireland for England, specifically to have an abortion. I'm almost certain her emotions about that event in her young life were very present when she made the decision to rip the pope's picture. I'm not saying it was a professional decision - obviously, Sinead didn't think about the repercussions her actions might have on her career and future appearances on American tv. But I do believe Sinead had more of a REASON for her actions than Liz did for pulling out of Coachella. And, unlike Sinead at that juncture in her career, Liz is now a seasoned professional. She should have known better and thought about her actions before she made a promise. She's not 23 any more.
                • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                  Sun, May 15, 2005 - 10:50 PM
                  Chris,
                  Is Liz a close personal friend of yours?

                  Are you trying to say that Liz cancelled Coachella because she's still hung up on Buckley's death almost ten years ago?

                  So they cancelled, that bums a lot of people out, but these things happen, I'm sure she has good reason.

                  Meanwhile let's not speculate on the inner workings of Liz's personal affairs, and let her have some privacey. Maybe she's greiving, maybe she's ill, maybe she's unproffessional, so what?

                  Let's just continue to appreciate the art that she's made so far, and let her be.

                  I mean, unless she is your friend, in which case you should go offer her some comfort and stop spreading her business around the internet.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                    Mon, May 16, 2005 - 2:14 AM
                    Uhm....I'm more interested in the throat / vocal chord thing...I am also a self-taught singer, so I'm really curious. I mean, I know if you're gonna go around screaming punk or growling death metal you can damage yourself, or if you smoke and drink a lot of whisky, but if you don't...
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                      Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                      Mon, May 16, 2005 - 7:03 AM
                      Fascinating tenor to this thread!~
                      • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                        Mon, May 16, 2005 - 10:17 AM
                        I'm sorry, but I would have been willing to believe that Liz cancelled due to vocal chord injury, not that it's any of my business, and I also believe that it that's the case, she shouldn't have agreed to do it in the first place.
                        I don't believe it's okay for us to speculate about the inner turmoil she's going through in her lovelife and proffessional life... or to use that as an excuse.
                        It just isn't fair to say she cancelled because her lover died tragically 8 years ago....
                        I mean, if that is the reason, let Liz offer it up herself...
                        otherwise we're just adding to the pile of rumors that would make any celebrity want to run and hide from their fans instead of performing.
                        And furthermore, to use Liz's checkered past to trash-talk other female vocalists...? that's just narrow minded and silly.
                        No singer emerges in a vaccum. THey all listen to and influence eachother, Liz even sites Bjork as an influence, who didn't appear until a few years after the Cocteau. Siouxsie had already released 5 chart topping albums before "Garlands", which were greatly influential on all music coming out of the UK at the time.
                        as the mirror ball turns, the beat goes on...
                    • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                      Mon, May 16, 2005 - 8:22 PM
                      Natasha,
                      There are other ways to do damage to your vocal chords besides screaming and growling. If you are singing improperly over a long period of time (like years) you can cause serious injury. It may not be as quick or obvious as screaming or chain smoking all night, but it adds up. If your technique requires your vocal chords to slam into eachother constantly then you should be concerned (I think mostly a lot of country and western singers commonly face this). The problem being that sometimes that is unavoidable in order to get the sound you may prefer. You could talk to a vocal coach to get more info.
                      • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                        Tue, May 17, 2005 - 6:11 PM
                        Kristen Hersh's "glottal hystrionics" (i.e., nasal warble) caused her to have nasal polyps which had to be removed before they became cancerous, shortly after the release of Hunkpapa. It changed her vocal style and she never quite got the warble back.
      • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

        Wed, May 18, 2005 - 1:28 PM
        << I was referring to all the plagirarists who ripped her unique style off, everyone from Sinead O'Connor to Enya to the Cranberries to Alanis Morrisette and everyone inbetween. >>

        With all due respect, Chris K., the people you've mentioned don't sound anything like Liz to me. Nobody does. She is completely unique to my ear (said as a musician, for what it's worth).
  • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

    Mon, May 16, 2005 - 5:17 PM
    or it could just be that she no longer wanted to hang out with junkies, ex or otherwise, and the one rehearsal they had was a bitter reminder.

    you recall that Liz and Robin's split was icky. I think that is the most obvious explanation. It is, however, all speculation.
    • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

      Wed, May 18, 2005 - 5:34 PM
      I was really disappointed too, but I also noticed her voice and personality changing. I saw them tour for Blue Bell Knoll and again for 4 Calendar Cafe (I think) and her voice was COMPLETELY different.

      I figured she cancelled because she just lost her mojo
      • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

        Wed, May 18, 2005 - 6:01 PM
        To broach the subject of Liz and the Cocteaus' personal lives again (please forgive me Jezza Mother Superior, you may smack me 3 times with a ruler and demand 15 hail marys), I recall from interviews after BBK and upon the release of 4CC that Robin got clean from drugs (he said most of BBK was recorded in a drug-induced haze), and Liz went into therapy and admitted to familial sexual abuse. You can hear the development in her 4CC lyrics: "I'm not real if I deny it; I'm not real unless I cry." Perhaps that's what lead to the personality and vocal style changes. Others cite the influence of Liz's relationship w/ Jeff Buckley on her changing vocal style, that Jeff inspired her to "free up" her singing style. Personally, I got a little tired of her live "shout singing" and "free jazz" interpretations around this point in their career. Forgive me for saying so, CT fans, but I prefer my Cocteau Twins live to sound a little bit more like Cocteau Twins recorded. You may spank me for my transgressions now.
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          Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

          Wed, May 18, 2005 - 8:31 PM
          Personally, I think the bizarre vocalizations she had taken to on those last two tours were a symptom of a worsening mental/emotional condition. Liz hated singing in front of people and I think they toured because they were in tremendous debt, which may also be why they left 4AD. I think the problems with Robin and Simon, the pressure of touring and dealing with the sexual abuse in her past were bad enough, and then Jeff dying was the breaking point. You can count on your fingers the number of songs she has released in the past 8 years.

          Geniuses often don't do well in the world. I was just watching the Alternative on VH1 Classic and they showed a Nirvana video and a My Bloody Valentine video. Of course, Kurt is dead and Kevin Shields was so intimidated by the perfection of Loveless that he was unable to make another record. Show biz history is full of stories like that.
          • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

            Mon, May 23, 2005 - 4:50 AM
            << Liz hated singing in front of people >>

            When I saw the Cocteau Twins in Los Angeles on the Four Calendar Cafe tour, she was very shy onstage, but seemed to *love* being there and performing. There was so much love in that room that at several points she was crying. I was right up front and could see clearly that this was not from some trauma or from her having a bad day. This was because of the deep intimacy she, the band and the audience were sharing. It was an incredibly evening that I will never, ever forget.
        • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

          Thu, May 19, 2005 - 9:35 AM
          (please forgive me Jezza Mother Superior, you may smack me 3 times with a ruler and demand 15 hail marys)

          ha ha!
          GO ahead and cite interviews, I don't care!
          We are all here to discuss music that we love, and of course singers often release public statements in interviews etc.
          I just get a little weary when fans start to string these things together and try to write their own stories about people they don't even know.... obsessive much? And I think we're all just a teeny bit uncomfortable with a certain fan putting Liz on such a high pedestal that they turn their noses up at the pursuits of other talented singers.
          Speaking of Kristen Hersh, have you seen 50ftWave?
          Talk about vocal cord damage... that screaming cannot be good, although it definitely sounds pretty good live! But it doesn't quite translate to her acoustic stuff, I was not really impressed with the Grotto.
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            Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

            Thu, May 19, 2005 - 9:39 PM
            You wound me, sir!
            • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

              Fri, May 20, 2005 - 2:50 AM
              I actually don't know Kirstin Hersch at all apart from "Your Ghost".
              • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                Fri, May 20, 2005 - 7:46 PM
                <I actually don't know Kirstin Hersh at all apart from "Your Ghost".>
                Check out
                "The Real Ramona" by Throwing Muses, this is (in my humble opinion) Kristin Hersh and Tanya Donelley at their best. It is also one of the greates albums of all time.
                The rest of TM's catalogue takes a little longer to warm up to, but I'd recomend "House Tornado" (preferably w/ Fat Skier EP) as another early high point.
                If you like "Your Ghost"
                check out "Strange Angels" Hersh's most successful solo project.

                50foot wave is Hersh's new project, based in LA. It's loud, angry, screaming punk rock, and totally awesome. I recommend seeing it live rather than just hearing the CD. I saw them at Bottom of the Hill last year, and it was stellar. Underneath the angry persona, Hersh is a sweetie too...
                I chatted with her for a while after the show, very very real person.
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                  Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                  Tue, October 18, 2005 - 9:41 PM
                  Good call on 'Real Ramona'...that's some tight/cohesive/moving stuff that runs the gamut from achingly beautiful ("Dylan", for her son) and balls-out angry ("Say Goodbye"). ALSO one of my fave albums of all time....
          • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

            Sat, May 21, 2005 - 7:15 PM
            I've been duly spanked. And the sad(?) thing is, I kinda liked it. ;} ...ANYway, yes, I've ridden the 50' Wave, and am a Kristen fan from old. I don't know how she does it w/ the vocal cords, nasal polyps or no nasal polyps. I have to admit, though, I miss Throwing Muses' interplay of punk & folk, acoustic & electric guitar textures. I was disappointed w/ the hushed meanderings of the Grotto, but I wasn't that impressed w/ the Throwing Muses record (w/ Tanya) either. It was like they were trying too hard or something. Since this is a forum for Cocteau Twins, I should probably stop talking about other bands before someone tries to spank me again... how about that latest Stereolab album, huh? ....oh dear.
            • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

              Mon, May 23, 2005 - 9:18 AM
              I didn't say I liked "Your Ghost", just that that was my only reference for her..but I do like the sounf of that punk thing. I'm terribly picky when it comes to female vocals. Not sure why. There are only a few that I fall for.
              • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                Mon, May 23, 2005 - 3:37 PM
                Throwing Muses debut album, self-titled, is an instant classic. Rykodisc reissued it a few years back as the "In a Doghouse" compilation, with some demos and the Chains Changed 12" (previously unavailable on cd in the U.S.). Next to House Tornado (Throwing Muses second full-length cd), it's the best thing they've done (imho). During my late adolescence (18-20), it gave me windows to escape the locked room of my head, and doors to escape the oppressive atmosphere of my parents' house. If that's not punk rock, I don't know what is. (Sorry, CT fans, for going off on a tangent again, but if it weren't for Throwing Muses and the Pink Opaque compilation, I would not have made it through those years.)
        • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

          Wed, May 25, 2005 - 12:44 PM
          so, if Liz was all messed up and vocally damaged since FCC how come the M&K show was the best they ever did? Her vocal performance for that tour was the purest I have ever heard in a live setting. Made up for all those shows I saw where she was barking and singing to invisible whales in the audience while Robin faced his stack and displayed furious amounts of butt crack. I am so very glad the last show I saw of theirs was, IMNSHO, the best.
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            Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

            Wed, May 25, 2005 - 2:39 PM
            <<<so, if Liz was all messed up and vocally damaged since FCC how come the M&K show was the best they ever did?>>>

            Re-read the earlier posts carefully and pay attention to chronology.
            • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

              Wed, May 25, 2005 - 10:40 PM
              sure,

              if she is damaged now, and since FCC how come M&K, coming last and oddly unmentioned in the chronology, was her best live performance?
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                Wed, May 25, 2005 - 11:30 PM
                <<If she is damaged now, and since FCC how come M&K, coming last and oddly unmentioned in the chronology, was her best live performance?>>

                I wrote about Milk and Kisses extensively in the first post in this thread.
                • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                  Thu, June 2, 2005 - 10:52 AM
                  Y'all need to get a life. The Cocteau Twins were good but certainly not worthy of all the chatter.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                    Thu, June 2, 2005 - 5:15 PM
                    while the ramones were all right but certainly not worthy of a t-shirt and a haircut
                    • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                      Fri, June 3, 2005 - 11:32 AM
                      Stewie,
                      The Ramones was a seminal band that influenced countless other bands and wound up in the rock & roll hall of fame. You can't even come close comparing the Cocteau Twins to them.

                      BTW - It was my son's halloween costume - recognized by many on his candy route. No one would recognize his if he went as a Twin.

                      Mr. Ding Dong
                      • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                        Fri, June 3, 2005 - 9:19 PM
                        Cocteau Twins = Bel Canto, DCD, Caterwaul, Lush, Slowdive, the Sundays, Orange, Love Spirals Downwards, Black Tape for a Blue Girl, Beautiful Pea Green Boat, Heavenly Bodies, Loveliescrushing, Danielle Dax, Hugo Largo, His Name is Alive, This Mortal Coil, The Wolfgang Press, Massive Attack, Peter Gabriel, Craig Armstrong, Felt, Pale Saints, Breathless, My Bloody Valentine, Medicine, Verve, Chapterhouse, Sigur Ros, Flaming Lips, Curve, the Cranberries, Sinead O'Connor, Stereolab and Pram.

                        How many bands have the Ramones influenced? Gabba gabba hey.
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                          Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                          Fri, June 3, 2005 - 10:48 PM
                          Don't forget Enya, Lycia, Paula Cole, Caterwaul, Jeff Buckley, Sugarcubes....
                          • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                            Sat, June 4, 2005 - 7:56 PM
                            Thanks ELisa,
                            not only are CT more influential, they:re more original than the Ramones or any other punk-esque bands, I mean, punk was basically just surf music or early rocknroll redone with Irony, you know?
                            • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                              Sat, June 4, 2005 - 7:58 PM
                              while its true that the Ramones costume is more recognizable that a CT costume, that:s precisely because the Twins never needed an image... their music is what draws fans to them, they don:t even have t-shirts as far as I know...

                              btw- I still listen to punk and all that shit, and i wear tshirts...
                              in fact, I just bought a Groovie Ghoulies t shirt at their DNA show a couple weeks ago. Not original or inspiring, but damn fun to dance to!
                        • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                          Sun, June 5, 2005 - 1:15 AM
                          actually, I wouldn't go there. hahahahaah...The Ramones are pretty much a huge deal to most punk bands on the planet.

                          Besides, why get involved in a 'my Dad is bigger than your Dad' type argument. He's just trying to get your goat.
                          • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                            Sun, June 5, 2005 - 11:37 AM
                            Because it's fun. And I'm the winner.
                            • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                              Sun, June 5, 2005 - 12:20 PM
                              mmmhhh...I have some doubts on Danielle Dax and DCD being influenced by Cocteau Twins...
                              Among the new bands, I can recommend Autumn (Tess Records, RIP, sigh). Guitar is influenced by Cocteau Twins sound at times(not Julie's voice).
                              • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                                Tue, June 21, 2005 - 7:56 PM
                                "mmmhhh...I have some doubts on Danielle Dax and DCD being influenced by Cocteau Twins... "

                                I think DCD was definitely influenced by CT...
                                all of the Biographic info I've read on DCD pretty much says that CT discovered DCD and introduced them to IVO, helping them to get signed to 4AD. Also, Ivo used both bands on his first "This Mortal Coil" project. I don't think the two necessarily sound alike, but you can't deny the mutual influence. ALso, listen to DCD self titled and compare with Garlands.... not exactly alike, but in the same vein as far as I can tell.

                      • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                        Mon, June 6, 2005 - 11:19 AM
                        "can't even come close comparing the Cocteau Twins to them"

                        I could not agree more. CT used more than 3 chords, for example. Liz had range, for example. I could go on.

                        "recognized by many on his candy route"

                        same would be true if you dragged him up in a Brittney Spears costume. So, please explain to me again why this is an indicator of musical brilliance.
                        • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                          Tue, June 21, 2005 - 8:02 PM
                          to Stuart:

                          Thank you... inluence and mass appeal does not always equal musical talent. I mean, Punk was never about musical talent anyways... in fact it usually put people with absolutely no musical talent on stage, it was more meant to inspire the masses of suburban counterculture to rise up and form their own bands, start screaming in their garages and piss off their parents. Punk is about Political patches and subcultural fashion.... it's more of statement than anything else.

                          The same thing goes for Brittany spears, but in quite the opposite way.... She's not selling records for her musical ability... it's clearly all about sex appeal and fashion... and making shitloads of $$$.

                          Bands like the Twins have tried hard to avoid both of these paths, using original musical combinations and indecipherable lyrics... in this way not ever making a clear statement politically, culturally, fashionably, or otherwise....

                          My point is, it's all good... musicians have to choose the path they walk on... some choose fame, some choose subculture, and some just choose to follow their passions, right?
                          • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                            Sat, July 30, 2005 - 10:13 PM
                            What I find a bit strange about this post is to see so many people speculating about the whys of Liz's lapse out of singing... isn't it the height of infringement on her privacy to make such subjective (almost therapist-like) statements. I'm sure there are many private issues behind why she isn't singing. As a painter and a musican, I know that there are many things that can contribute to someone's lapse in musical/artistic output. Why piece together interviews and bits of this and that to 'figure out' why she's stopped singing?

                            And something else that freaks me out - when she performed 'Song to the Siren' at September Sound just before the release of 'Milk and Kisses' she remarked to Raygun how much she 'HATED that song' - so let's not get carried away with psychoanalysis about her - I'm sure she'd HATE to think people are doing this about her.
                            • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                              Sat, July 30, 2005 - 11:16 PM
                              >>>Why piece together interviews and bits of this and that to 'figure out' why she's stopped singing? <<<

                              why the hell not? You have something against thinking, discussing, deductive reasoning, & petty, unsourced** gossip?




                              **>>>when she performed 'Song to the Siren' at September Sound just before the release of 'Milk and Kisses' she remarked to Raygun how much she 'HATED that song'<<<
                              • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                                Sun, July 31, 2005 - 4:46 PM
                                argh! Raygun is a magazine.... (sigh...) I'm not sure what you mean by 'unsourced' - I do not remember the issue - it's just that there was nothing to counter all these wild speculations - I just find it a bit disturbing that people are discussing various childhood problems of 'stars' as possible reasons for someone deciding to not perform. Ms. 'E' I don't understand what point you're making?
                                • Unsu...
                                   

                                  Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                                  Sun, July 31, 2005 - 6:01 PM
                                  If you're not interested in taking part in the conversation, maybe you can go somewhere else. These are the parameters of the discussion, this is the topic and your criticisms have already been brought up by other posters.
                                  • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                                    Mon, August 1, 2005 - 9:28 AM
                                    Yeah, and us "other Posters" are clearly interested in taking part in that conversation... it's just that we're making a different point that the speculators... that maybe it's none of our business! I think that's a valid point in the discussion, don't you?
                                • Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                                  Mon, August 1, 2005 - 9:31 AM
                                  oh yeah, and John:
                                  you're fighting a losing battle. Twins fans are gossipy by nature. I'd "speculate" that perhaps the enigmatic quality of Liz's vocals leave her wide open... ;)
                                  • Unsu...
                                     

                                    Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

                                    Mon, August 8, 2005 - 11:30 AM
                                    *FLUSH* Sound of toilet flushing!

                                    lol lol hahahaha lol Kudos Jezza!

                                    Give me more...*burp* or should I say *Suggar Hiccup*
                                    -tpow
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Why Liz stopped singing....

    Fri, October 14, 2005 - 7:01 PM
    I knew someone who was a Roadie for them way back when... the Tours had to be set up so that all Liz had to do was show up for the gig and sing. Apparently every night was tentative anyway and everyone breathed a sigh of relief when it was all over.
    I was shocked to see them on the Coachella roster, but bought my ticket anyway. Thank god Peter Murphy doesn't have that problem!

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